Where are you?

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I ask this question of the Malays—the timid and false Malays. There has been almost total silence from those in the Malay community who are against hudud, with the exception of Tan Sri Ani Arope and a few lawyers I know. What has become of the rest? Do they really want their children’s hands and feet to be amputated for theft, for drinking a glass of beer, for illicit sexual intercourse? I cannot believe the behaviour of this bunch of Malays. They likely committed one or more of these offences at some stage in their lives and yet now they say nothing? Why are they so afraid to speak up?

According to the 1993 Kelantan Bill, stealing anything worth more than RM2,000 would merit hudud punishment. Most bicycles cost more than that nowadays. Do these Malays want to cut off people’s hands for this petty offence? Does this sound fair and just, when we all know that over the years billions of ringgit have been stolen from the national coffers through other mechanisms that do not amount to “theft”? Are these Malays so bereft of compassion? Have they lost all sense of fairness? It seems particularly odd because they are now suddenly so God-fearing.

Have they not had a few beers or glasses of whisky or brandy at some point in their lives? I know of some powerful Malays who are still alive who were once quite happy to have Campari soda and expensive wine—they were lucky there was no hudud then. They were also able to afford to drink mostly overseas, but they give no thought to those who have to go to the local coffee shop for their glass of stout or beer. Shouldn’t these people be spared from hudud too?

As for illegal sexual activities, are these Malays trying to say they have not strayed at all, not even once in their lives? They shouldn’t be such hypocrites. Many of them who appear religious in appearance and speech actually have a big appetite for the opposite sex. I know some of them too. When I was growing up in Kelantan we always crossed the Golok River for some fun, and there were thousands of others over the weekend. We were not looking for mangoes my friend, and PAS was in charge of the state government all that time.

So to these Malays who partake in some or all of the above hudud offences, may I suggest they take another good, long look at themselves. How long are they going to pretend that they live free of sin, and that they want the severest of punishments for others? They will know the full effect of this “perfect justice” when one of their loved ones loses a limb—then they can come and talk to me about justice.

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93 Comments

  1. Bigjoe
    Bigjoe
    April 30, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    Its not difficult to understand – DECADES of Entitlement, not having to be self-reliant, means they won’t act until something really bad come close to home..Only people who are self-reliant, believe they don’t owe anyone their living and their lives stand up for issues that will affect them before it happens.

    Its not about values. Its about character and practice.

  2. Eugene
    Eugene
    April 30, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    “Punishments for apostasy, adultery, blasphemy and normative religious practices like the hijab, the beard, saying ‘amen’ in prayers all come from the Bible. Ironically, while Christians themselves have left these practices for the most part, Traditional Muslims cling to them passionately”.
    -Farouk A. Peru.(OutSyed The Box )

  3. Navina
    Navina
    April 30, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Dato’ I see that many of those who say ‘aye’ to hudud want to be seen to be religious and islamic than to be just; and look at the politicians wanting to be on the bandwagon just to be sure of winning votes; not in doing what is right.

  4. tebing tinggi
    tebing tinggi
    April 30, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    Should Hudud be implemented It should be the law of the land , and should be apply to everybody not just for the Muslim ,then I would say ‘aye’ to it.

    1. Coolie
      Coolie
      May 1, 2014 at 3:26 pm

      Your warped logic is that non-Muslims must be subjected to Islamic laws and punishment in order to be fair to Muslims?

      If only Muslims are subjected to Islamic Laws, then it’s not fair to Muslims?

      If you are afraid of Islamic Laws, don’t try to wriggle out of it by implicating non-Muslims… be a man.

    2. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 1, 2014 at 4:22 pm

      Coolie, have you ever been out of this country? Can I ask you a question? In a Christian majority country, would you agree that Christians can impose their teachings on Muslims? Why don’t you also propose that non-Muslims must puasa every Ramadan? You never thought of that, right? You sound like your grasp of religion is not strong.

      1. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 1, 2014 at 4:26 pm

        Coolie, sorry, wrote your name wrongly. It was intended for Tebing Tinggi and I couldn’t delete the post, after I realized my mistake. Hopefully, Zaid Ibrahim read this and delete it for me.

    3. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 1, 2014 at 4:23 pm

      Tebing Tinggi, have you ever been out of this country? Can I ask you a question? In a Christian majority country, would you agree that Christians can impose their teachings on Muslims? Why don’t you also propose that non-Muslims must puasa every Ramadan? You never thought of that, right? You sound like your grasp of religion is not strong.

  5. Huang Xiao Er
    Huang Xiao Er
    April 30, 2014 at 5:25 pm

    Very very good article. I am also asking where are the timid Malays? Speak up.

  6. Dr.Chris Anthony
    Dr.Chris Anthony
    April 30, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    Well said Zaid.Where the moderate Malays?Only they can save the country.The country is going to be ruined and only the Malays can stop that.Are they willing to do that for their country?This is the time for them to show their patriotism,to stand up and be counted.

  7. Silencer
    Silencer
    April 30, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    Mr Zaid, lessons fr history never ever learnt by humans. WW2 was expanded bcoz US didn’t want to get involved initially tho’ they knew how bad situations were becoming. Holocaust sadly happened bcoz majority Christian world leaders n german religious leaders didn’t want to speak up against Hitler Nazi. If only those majority leaders spoke up against the minority aggressors then, the world would not have to suffer so much.

    1. wayang
      wayang
      May 1, 2014 at 1:58 pm

      This hudud thingy is disgusting and idiotic. It belongs to the ages of the camels not for a country like Malaysia. Anyway, now I realize why the Malays are a very perverted and a sadistic rce. I mean it. They love to see other people suffering and they will go to any extent to see people suffering. This also applies to professionals, doctors and politicians. Why do you think those bigots kept on hounding anwar with those idiotic charges. They never stopped and they will never stop for another 1000 years. Thata how sadistic they are. They are so jealous of anwar because of his exceptional intelligence and superior characteristics which they can only dream of.
      All this hudud thingy is just a ruse for their selfish reasons when they have no love for God or of people. They live in hate and bitterness.

      1. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 1, 2014 at 3:59 pm

        Is there such a thing called ‘love and compassion’ in Islam? If there is, I am not aware. What I hear is an overemphasis on punishment, of men trying to behave like God. As they say, to err is human, which implies that all of us will err at one time or another, whether in good times or in bad. Where is God’s mercy and forgiveness? And I thought Allah is All-Merciful? Is it that He has delegated the dirty task of punishment to humans, or that humans are contravening His merciful nature?

        “O son of Adam, as long as you call upon Me and put your hope in Me, I have forgiven you for what you have done and I do not mind. O son of Adam, if your sins were to reach the clouds of the sky and then you would seek My forgiveness, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, if you were to come to Me with sins that are close to filling the earth and then you would meet Me without ascribing any partners with Me, I would certainly bring to you forgiveness close to filling it.”

        http://quranicverse99.tripod.com/islamicways/id4.html

  8. Loh Rui
    Loh Rui
    April 30, 2014 at 6:41 pm

    “Beware of all those in whom the urge to punish is strong” -Nietzsche

  9. Fairijus
    Fairijus
    May 1, 2014 at 12:33 am

    Its sad you did not notice
    They have joined ISMA, Perkasa and Race-protecting or Religion-protecting NGO
    It started with the Guru Bear and Pengetua
    Then it was the clerk in the Registration Department
    Then it was the head of all government departments
    Who had an Oostaj on their Advisory Board
    Then there was a change in fashion
    Cloth sellers were too happy with the new
    Which require not only a change of clothing but more cloth
    And new eating shops sprung up on every corner
    All Halal All Halal
    And all the young were sent their little children
    To be taught by one dimensional teachers
    About the world and how to say
    Aye Aye Aye

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 1, 2014 at 3:44 pm

      Right… some one starts and soon, everyone adds one small little thing after another until it becomes a mammoth. I suggest that before anyone adds anything, they should declare that they have NEVER done anything that infringed hudud, otherwise it would amount to pure hypocrisy, as what Zaid Ibrahim is pointing out.

      In The Malaysian Insider, Ahmad Shukri Yusoff cites this story:

      “Pada suatu hari, tokoh tabien Hasan Al-Basri mengajar di dalam masjid dan beliau terdengar riuh-rendah yang berlaku di luar masjid. Beliau bertanya anak-anak muridnya apa yang sudah berlaku. Mereka menjawab ada pencuri di luar dan dianya sudah berjaya ditangkap. “Pencuri tersembunyi menangkap pencuri terang-terangan”, kata Hasan Al-Basiri. Beliau memberi kiasan dan gambaran bahawa orang berkuasa mencuri duit secara sembunyi tidak ditangkap tetapi orang miskin dan rakyat biasa sahaja yang ditangkap dan dihukum.”

  10. Walter Poon
    Walter Poon
    May 1, 2014 at 2:33 am

    How about asking those who have never strayed before to declare their names in a list? Not a legal document, but just an informal list, with all declarations being made in good faith. We can begin with those who have studied in UK or US before. Najib studied at University of Nottingham, and Hishammudin Hussein at both the University of Wales and the London School of Economics. Maybe the two can make a public declaration that they indeed had never strayed before. Both Muhyiddin Yassin and Ahmad Zahid Hamidi studied locally, so perhaps they may not have strayed before, but I won’t even dare to bet one sen on that.

  11. sotong
    sotong
    May 1, 2014 at 8:18 am

    ‘ Should Hudud be implemented It should be the law of the land , and should be apply to everybody not just for the Muslim ,then I would say ‘aye’ to it’ – tebing tinggi.

    This is one great example of Muslim hypocricy.

    Real and true Muslims will immediately accept Hudud without subjecting Non Muslims to their religion…..now Muslims are saying, if the Non Muslims accept Hudud, only then Muslims will accept it.

    Muslims should set a good example by totally accept their religious law.

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 1, 2014 at 3:27 pm

      Sotong, interesting, right? When comes to punishment, they say it must be applied to non-Muslims. When it comes to benefits, the same logic does not apply.

      By the way, hudud is a Muslim practice. Does it now mean that during the month of Ramadan, non-Muslims should also fast?

      1. sotong
        sotong
        May 3, 2014 at 9:21 am

        Walter,

        There are many Munafiq in the Muslim community.

        There are many serious signs and some of them are.

        – When they speak, they lie.
        – When entrusted with a responsibility, they are treacherous.
        – In dispute, they will bully, threaten and intimidate with voilence.
        – They are coward using petty matters for their ‘ struggle ‘ in the name of religion.
        – They have grossly misguided pride and arrogance with 2 faces and 2 tongues.

        Evil is what they need to do with their hearts like a rock.

        May Peace be upon all of you on Judgement day.

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 3, 2014 at 10:30 pm

        Well said, Sotong. When they see public money, they think of ways and means to turn it into their own private money. And when the coffers are dry, they impose GST to replenish the public till so as to allow them to continue with their ‘godly’ deeds. How else do we think their millions and billions come from?

  12. echeng
    echeng
    May 1, 2014 at 8:37 am

    I cannot believe we need to punish any wrong doers with such harsh punishment. We know for sue that if you are found out of the wrongs you have done, you will definitely will suffer because of the guilt and shame. There is no need to mete out severing of the limbs just to teach him a lesson. Is there any other ways to inculcate good virtues and behaviours.
    At one stage of our lives, we will need to deal with the sins we have done, we answer in. As we believe in heaven , hell , enlightenment or nothingness, lets allow that course to be taken rather inflict pain and enjoy seeing the suffering.
    There should not be a tooth for a tooth and an eye for an eye but we cannot let the wrong doers go for the wrongs too, but definitely there is no joy to put hfear in our daily lives.

    What right we have to cause harm and who shall cast the first stone.

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 1, 2014 at 3:36 pm

      Echeng, I agree with you. As I mentioned in Facebook, one can still implement hudud, based on Islamic justice, but the type of punishment to be meted out should be modified to suit the times. Harsh punishments were prevalent in the past, e.g. in China where criminals were beheaded. Such punishments are unthinkable of, nowadays.

      Muslims don’t believe in karma. The question is that after their hands are chopped off, does it mean that their sins are cleared? If not, that would amount to double jeopardy. And God forbid, what if the syariah courts make a mistake and latter discover that the verdict was a mistake? Is there an avenue for appeal like in the secular courts where you keep seeing verdicts being reversed?

  13. sotong
    sotong
    May 4, 2014 at 10:54 am

    ‘When they see public money, they think of ways and means to turn it into their own private money’ – Walter.

    Even Robin Hood got problem stealing to give it to the corrupt.

  14. Boy
    Boy
    May 5, 2014 at 2:31 am

    It is quite hard to do what we believe right in a situation where different people believe in different things. It is an era when everyone has a right to be right. No one is wrong. All are rights. Where does this come from?

    Maybe from the theory of individualism. We might say that every individual is in a war we call “war of ideas”. And we are leaving this war of ideas to participate in a bigger and more challenging “war of good ideas”.

    Who has wrong ideas? It seems that no one with wrong ideas. Who has right ideas? It seems that everyone has them. Even a child can have the idea of being right.

    In a country that practises democracy, sometimes there is too much subjectivity. To be objective is hard in this context. Any individual who is chosen to be the leader or head of other people is doing hard work to convince people that what he believes is right. Will other people feel that he is right? When there is too much subjectivity, he may not succeed to show that right things are on his side.

    However, we must keep doing the right things which benefit not only ourselves but people at large. We must keep a good role-model personality that influences many people. We must keep doing doing something until finally many people say, “we must follow him”.

    Keep doing…It is hard…Keep doing…

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 5, 2014 at 3:51 am

      Boy, you sound quite confused. Honestly, there are some ideas that are universally considered to be wrong, for example, racism, corruption, and abuse of power. Does it matter whether a murderer thinks he is right? Murder is wrong, period.

  15. Bigjoe
    Bigjoe
    May 5, 2014 at 10:35 am

    I really have to add this to the debate..

    How come UMNO’s ulama know so much about hookers that they can compare it to anti-GST people? and the follow up question to PAS is this – Why do you need Hudud for political capital when you have a gold-mine like these people?

  16. dshrl
    dshrl
    May 5, 2014 at 11:29 am

    Would the non-Muslims in Malaysia be ok if Hudud is only subjected to Muslims?

    It would be interesting to listen what Muslims think about implementing hudud, like what Zaid and Ani Arope have said, plus others like TunM and those from various political parties.

    But to listen to comments from non-muslims, especially those who are opposed to it on the basis of human rights, perhaps it would sound a bit, for the lack of better words, ‘intrusive’, unless if non-muslims are also subjected to it. However, non-muslims may be able to justify their opposition on the basis of creating a non-friendly perspective towards malaysia by outsiders, which could have a negative impact on the economy, foreign investment, tourism etc.

    So perhaps the question is; why would non-muslims be opposed to a ‘for muslims only’ hudud?

    1. Bigjoe
      Bigjoe
      May 5, 2014 at 12:58 pm

      The fact of the matter is its NOT interesting to ask Muslim about what they think of implementing Hudud because their freedom to express is always limited. The fact of the matter is that if leaders of Muslims will not defend non-Muslim right to express their opinion of Hudud, then most Muslim opinion don’t count that much..

    2. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 5, 2014 at 4:04 pm

      QUOTE: “So perhaps the question is; why would non-muslims be opposed to a ‘for muslims only’ hudud?”

      dshrl, I used to think like you but someone pointed out to me that this hudud thing applying to ONLY TO MUSLIM is just a ruse. It is merely one step towards turning Malaysia into an Islamic state. Once hudud is implemented, they will then try to implement it on non-Muslims by claiming it to be “unfair”, using the same reasons that Mahathir put forward for rejecting hudud, i.e. either you apply to everyone or not at all.

  17. Eugene
    Eugene
    May 5, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Hi dshrl, you said:
    “So perhaps the question is; why would non-muslims be opposed to a ‘for muslims only’ hudud?”
    Simple for instance, if a Muslim guy rapes a non Muslim girl and the victim
    can’t produce 4 eye witnesses, then what?

  18. Leo Perera
    Leo Perera
    May 5, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    Zaid You would make a first class PM of Malaysia ——–You are intelligent , non-racial, moderate and fearless .

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 5, 2014 at 5:46 pm

      I agree with you but fact is that you need to be a crook to reach the top.

  19. Objective Malaysian
    Objective Malaysian
    May 5, 2014 at 5:51 pm

    Looks like many people here don’t like PAS’ hudud idea eh?

    The funny thing is, why are you clever people blaming BN/UMNO/Najib for all of this? Whose idea was this in the first place? Was it Najib/BN/UMNO’s idea to introduce hudud?

    Whatever they now claim, PAS is Pakatan’s problem, not BN’s. You all voted for Pakatan/PAS/DAP/PKR…why don’t you go ask the racist Kit Siang and his equally bigoted son why Pakatan is doing this? Or why not take to task your demigod Anwar, or if you prefer his wife and daughter from the Parti Keluarga Ria? They were the ones who hoodwinked you into supporting PAS, and now you allow them to wash their hands off and blame it on their favourite bogey UMNO? Not very clever now is it?

    Looks like JFK was really wrong – as far as Pakatan supporters are concerned, you CAN fool all the people all the time!

    You hardcore Malay/UMNO/BN haters out there may not like to be reminded of this: the fact is, had it not been for the much hated BN and the reviled Tun Dr. Mahathir and his two thirds majority, our country (or at least Kelantan) would have had implemented hudud 21 years ago. Yes that’s right, back in 1993 when the PAS-state Government first introduced and passed their hudud enactment which they are now trying to enforce. And you clever people still voted for PAS/Pakatan despite knowing this? Is not as if post GE13 PAS suddenly woke up and said lets try this hudud thing. You all knew all this and still voted them, so why complain?

    Sorry fellas, you’re not just barking up the wrong tree, but really jumping the gun too.

    All Najib is doing is say that as a responsible Government, we will hear them (PAS) out. Nothing wrong with that, after all Kit Siang and Anwar has been saying that the Government does not listen to the opposition, so when the Government does, you complain? Unless what Kit Siang and gang really means is just listen to the anti-Malays anti-Islam bigots and nobody else.

    With respect, Zaid is wrong on this. Most Malays WILL support Najib’s move to hear PAS out. After all, PAS had never really explained it well to the people, and I see nor reason why they should not be given the opportunity to do so. “Where are the Malays?” he asked. Well, the answer to that is that they are alive and kicking. Through their deafening silence, the Malays have spoken. They are sick and tired of the disunity among the Malay leaders and politicians who can sell out their interests (pst pst, you know who we are referring to, don’t you?). The Malays agree with Najib on this. Period.

    The funny thing is, when UMNO listens to PAS, its wrong and racist. But when MCA/Gerakan falls into the DAP trap to provoke the Malays and Muslims with bigoted, racist and inflammatory words, that is acceptable.

    If after convincing the gullible rakyat into voting Pakatan and PAS, the Lim Sr. and Lim Jr. (no nepotism here, only meritocracy), Anwar, family and all find that they cannot control their partner, whose fault is that? Why should BN/UMNO/Najib/Dr. M have to clean up their mess? And why should all of you complain? You voted for those goons in the first place.

    If only you use all your pent up energies and frustrations on the Lims/Anwar/DAP/PKR and get them to get their erstwhile partner PAS to see the ‘light’? Maybe then you won’t have to rant at the evil UMNO/BN for not doing what the people you voted for should have done. Just saying.

    🙂

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 5, 2014 at 7:11 pm

      Objective Malaysian? You call yourself “objective”? Look at yourself in a mirror. You said Lim Kit Siang is racist but you don’t think the promoters of Ketuanan Melayu are racists… think again!

      Wahai Manusia, tidak beriman orang-orang yang mempermainkan aturan untuk menghalalkan yang telah dilarang oleh ALLAH, dan untuk melarang yang sudah diizinkan ALLAH… Semua manusia berasal dari Adam dan Hawa, seorang Arab tidak memiliki kelebihan diatas non-Arab, dan seorang non-Arab tidak memiliki kelebihan diatas Arab; juga seorang putih tidak memiliki kelebihan diatas seorang hitam, tidak juga seorang hitam memiliki kelebihan atas orang putih, kecuali dalam ketakwaan dan ibadahnya.

      1. Objective Malaysian
        Objective Malaysian
        May 5, 2014 at 9:01 pm

        Walter Woon,

        Yes actually, I find myself a very objective person. BTW, I have no problems looking into the mirror. Perhaps you should try doing the same.

        Since you question my objectivity, it will help definitely help other readers if you could help point where in my posting exactly did I state Ketuanan Melayu as not being racist? The problem with you and your likes is that while you condemn the Ibrahim Alis of the world, you have no problems with at all arrogant, racists and bigoted Lim (Sr. and Jr., the most ‘meritocratic’ leaders of all time who reject all forms of nepotism and like the Lees of Singapore, rose all the way to the top of their parties through their sheer intellect and NEVER through nepotism) and people like them.

        Being objective is calling a spade a spade, not about posting purported quotes from the Quran and hadis. In the Internet age, it is very easy to ramble quotes from the Al-Quran, Bible, Confucius, Buddha or Plato. Anyone can do that. But being (or trying to be objective) is when you can bravely acknowledge that even the leaders you admire are not infallible and to measure everyone with the same ruler. Otherwise, you are no better than the Ibrahim Alis that you so fervently condemn.

        This is where Datuk Zaid wins admiration. You may not agree with him, but his refusal to compromise his principles (though you may disagree with them) out of blind loyalty to the party or a particular leader is indeed an admirable quality. It has certainly not served Zaid well in politics, yet he is willing to pay the price…a rare trait in today’s politicians.

        Walter, the discussion thread here is littered with your many many comments, but they add very little substance nor value. Try adding a dose of objectivity for a change. You may just be surprised at the results.

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 5, 2014 at 9:45 pm

        Sometimes, silence speak louder than words. Can you show me then that, when you said Lim Kit Siang is racist, you also said that UMNO is racist? Can your post be objective, if you only point at others, other than UMNO who is the government and the main cause of everything that is not right in this country?

        What is wrong with quoting from the Qur’an and the hadith to support my argument? Or are you saying that Ketuanan Melayu is encouraged by Islam?

      3. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 5, 2014 at 10:57 pm

        People who promote ‘Malaysian Malaysia’ are called racist, but not people who promote ‘Ketuanan Melayu’. Have you gone cuckoo? So much for objectivity.

  20. Boy
    Boy
    May 5, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    Allow me to express my opinion my friends. If someone wants to use the Quran, I believe that he or she must understand the totality of the book and not just take some of its words. Like using some quotation from any other book, someone has to understand the whole content of the book.

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 5, 2014 at 11:33 pm

      Boy, it is bodek kaki like you that is causing so much trouble in Malaysia. Are you telling me that Islam supports Ketuanan Melayu. Just give me a simple answer.

      1. Objective Malaysian
        Objective Malaysian
        May 6, 2014 at 12:37 am

        Boy, you are perfectly entitled to your views. Just ignore the likes of Walter Woon who is somehow incapable of intellectually making a dissenting argument without resorting to name calling.

        How on earth can someone who uses a pseudonym ‘Boy’ be a ‘kaki bodek’ is beyond me. What, does Walter Woon expect PM will be using all the nation’s intelligence agencies to find out who ‘Boy’ really is and award him a Datukship? If you really want to brown nose and gain favour from the powers that be, Boy will use his real name lah! So Walter, to make it easy for you, I will use the kind of language you understand and just say “Stop talking kok!” (not to be confused with Theresa Kok of course!). Amacam, sekarang ada faham?

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 12:51 am

        QUOTE: “How on earth can someone who uses a pseudonym ‘Boy’ be a ‘kaki bodek’ is beyond me.”

        Amazing, simply amazing!!! So you can go to a court and tell the judge, “How can a guy with a pseudonyn like Archangel be a crook, right?

  21. Walter Poon
    Walter Poon
    May 5, 2014 at 11:30 pm

    QUOTE: ” If someone wants to use the Quran, I believe that he or she must understand the totality of the book and not just take some of its words. ”

    Boy, is that your opinion or standard practice? Can you tell me if I had misquote the Quran in any way?

    1. Anonymous
      Anonymous
      May 6, 2014 at 1:08 am

      Aiyo Walter, simple logic pun tak faham ke?

      Guna kata-kata suci Al-Quran dan hadis macam terror, guna bahasa mudah pun susah nak faham ke dei?

      Maksud saya, kalau Boy tu nak bodek kerajaan, dia guna lah nama sendiri (macam Walter Woon). Apasal nak guna nama samaran ‘Boy’. Macam mana Najib nak tahu siapa dia? Macam mana UMNO/BN nak bagi kontrak berjuta-juta pada ‘Boy’? Ada faham?

      Ini agak berbeza dengan orang yang menngunakan namanya seperti Walter Woon, yang ingin sangat dikenali dan ada besar kemungkinan bessar kaki bodek dan mat ampu yang sebenar. Mungkin nak sangat naik pangkat dalam DAP sampai terpaksa bermati-matian bela kepimpinan DAP yang rasis.

      Kalau dibanding dengan ‘Boy’, kemungkinan besar orang yang ingin sangat dikenali seperti Walter Woon lah raja bodek yang sebenar.

      1. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 1:17 am

        Anonymous, LOL… anyway, “guna kata-kata suci Al-Quran dan hadis macam terror.” Really? You mean you should not quote from the al-Quran? By the way, if you can’t understand those few words, you shouldn’t be participating at all in this thread.

      2. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 1:30 am

        Ha, ambik kau Walter!

        Padan muka! Pandai-pandai je gelar orang kaki bodek. Kalau nak tegur pun bersopan la sikit.

        Konon pandai Quran, ada Quran ajar kau hina orang lain?

        Sekarang dah kena pun sebijik! Terus terduduk!
        🙂 🙂 🙂

      3. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 1:36 am

        What is your problem, Cendekiawan. You take offence when I called Boy a kaki bodek, but you don’t take offence when others called names.

        By the way, what is hina? What have you say about the massive corruption in Malaysia, the abuse of power, the frequent lie-telling and most of all, Ketuanan Melayu? Is that not menghina Islam or are you saying that Islam encourages Muslims to do all these? Nothing to say, right?

      4. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 1:54 am

        Walter Poon, saya hairan sama ada awak ni betul-betul bodoh atau tak tahu adab berdebat.

        Cuba lihat semula apa yang ditulis ‘Boy’. Ada ke dia panggil awak nama macam ‘Cina Bukit’ ke, Walter Poondek ke atau sebagainya?

        Sepatutnya kalau pun kita berbeza pendapat, tak perlu lah nak panggil orang gelaran yang menghina seperti ‘Kaki Bodek’. Kalau tak ada modal nak berdebat, tak payah bukak mulut la…nanti malu diri sendiri.

        Saya menegur awak khususnya sebab nampaknya kebiadapan anda terhadap orang yang berlainan pendapat begitu ketara. Apakah saya perlu menegur setiap orang sebelum menegur awak terlebih dahulu..sedangkan kalau dilihat, awaklah yang mula-mula sekali mengunakan istilah menghina.

        Dan selepas ditegur supaya jangan menghina, awak timbulkan pulak isu salah guna kuasa dan bagaimana ianya menghina Islam. Apa kena mengena salah guna kuasa dengan kebidapan awak? Pada saya dua-dua pun salah.

        Padan lah awak dapat reaksi sedemikian dari Objective Malaysian, Anonymous dan sebagainya. Kalau tak pandai berdebat, selalu keluar topik dan hanya tahu mencaci-cerca, bukankah lebih baik berdiam? Bukankah itu ajaran Al-Quran dan Nabi Muhammad SAW yang sebenar?

      5. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 1:59 am

        PETIKA: “Walter Poon, saya hairan sama ada awak ni betul-betul bodoh atau tak tahu adab berdebat. Cuba lihat semula apa yang ditulis ‘Boy’. Ada ke dia panggil awak nama macam ‘Cina Bukit’ ke, Walter Poondek ke atau sebagainya?”

        Adakah saya panggil kamu pundek atau bodoh?

      6. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 2:05 am

        Sudah tentu tidak. Sebab begitu ketara (dari adab pertuturan dan cara berdebat) yang awak yang bodoh sebenarnya Walter.

        Tentang pundek tu, saya kata Boy tak panggil awak Walter Poondek atau kaki bodek dan sebagainya.

        Sama ada awak benar-benar pundek, saya tak kenal awak so no comment!

        🙂

      7. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:06 am

        Cendiakawan, apabila Objective Malaysian kata “Kit Siang is a bigot and racist”, tak de masalah, kan? You take no offence, but when I saw “bodek kaki”, wahhhh!!!! cannot, big offence!!! Can you explain why? Look at the words that Objective Malaysian used…. twisted knickers, erectile dysfunction, blah, blah, blah. He may not use names but is it any different? If I ask both of you to fuck yourself, is that calling you names?

      8. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:08 am

        PETIKAN: Adakah saya panggil kamu pundek atau bodoh?

        Cendiakawan, same to you, right? I don’t know you either.

      9. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:09 am

        PETIKAN: Sama ada awak benar-benar pundek, saya tak kenal awak so no comment!

        Same to you, right? Because I don’t know you either.

      10. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 2:18 am

        Walter Woon: “Cendiakawan, apabila Objective Malaysian kata “Kit Siang is a bigot and racist”, tak de masalah, kan? You take no offence, but when I saw “bodek kaki”, wahhhh!!!! cannot, big offence!!! Can you explain why?”

        Ya la, sebab ramai pun merasakan LKS adalah rasis dan DAP adalah parti cauvinis cina. Sama ada benar atau tidak, mungkin awak boleh pertikaikan…tapi menggunakan hujah yang bernas dan beradab.

        Lagi pun, saya tak perlu menegur Objective Malaysian sebab dia tidak menonjolkan kebiadapannya terhadap orang-orang dalam blog ni, tidak seperti awak terhadap Boy. Sebab itulah ramai yang menegur awak kerana awak biadap. Ada faham?

      11. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:25 am

        PETIKAN: “Ya la, sebab ramai pun merasakan LKS adalah rasis dan DAP adalah parti cauvinis cina”.

        Ya ke? Siapa tu “ramai”? UMNO atau Perkasa? Sebenarnya mengikut ajaran al-Qur’an, pendokong “Malaysian Malaysia” atua pendokong “Ketuanan Melayu” adalah rasis? Boleh jawab?

      12. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 2:36 am

        Walter,

        Apakah salah ahli UMNO merasakan sedemikian?

        Dengan jutaan ahlinya (FYI, dari segi keahlian, UMNO adalah parti terbesar di negara bertuah ini – jauh melebihi keahlian DAP, PKR, MCA, Gerakan, PAS). Maka dengan itu, ahli-ahli UMNO secara objektifnya bolehlah ditakrifkan sebagai ‘ramai’, bukan begitu?

        Selalunya kaum Cina memang bagus dalam matematik dan kiraan. Selain jahil cara berdebat dengan sopan, tak kan lah dalam bidang kira-kira pun awak gagal Walter Pund? Maaf Poon.

      13. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:43 am

        PETIKAN: “Apakah salah ahli UMNO merasakan sedemikian?”

        Apakah yang kamu pertikaikan, sebenarnya? Nampaknya, kamu cuma nak pertikaikan apa yang orang Inggeris kata, “Argue for the sake of argument.”

        Kalau Botak Chin mengutuk orang melakukan jenayah, kamu nak mengambil berat tentang kutukannya tak? Sedemikian juga kalau rasis yang mengutuk orang lain sebagai rasis. Sehingga seorang, tak ada seorang Melayu pun dalam forum ini yang mengatakan Ketuanan Melayu adalah haram di sisi agama Islam? Kenapa? Baik makan daging babi, kan, kerana ia merupakan kesalahan yang jauh lebih ringan daripada rasisme. Tak percaya? Mengapa Allah membenarkan orang Islam makan daging, kalau menghadapi kebuluhan? Adakah Allah memebenarkan Ketuanan Melayu dan rasuah dalam keadaan yang sama? Boleh jawab? Memang kamu akan elak lagi.

  22. Objective Malaysian
    Objective Malaysian
    May 6, 2014 at 12:25 am

    Walter Walter Walter, stop putting words into my mouth will you? Or is that how you engage in intellectual discourse?

    When I said Kit Siang is a bigot and racist (and rightly so), why do you get all twisted in your knickers and ask instead about UMNO? Why can’t you objectively look into Kit Siang and his meritorious sucesssor, his son, without for once tying everything to UMNO? Why would silence about UMNO be taken as my tacit approval about everything the party stands for. For argument sake, why can’t both be racists? It so happens that the discussion now is about hudud and all I’m saying (again, rightly so) that this is a DAP/PKR/Pakatan problem with PAS as the chief cause of the problem. Sensible objective people (unlike you) would be hard pressed to argue that this is something caused by UMNO/BN/Najib and that they are responsible for cleaning Pakatan’s failure.

    There are probably more than a dozen question in my original posting, but Walter Woon chooses not to respond to any of them and instead leap to the defence of his hero that infallible great Malaysian racist bigot Lim Kit Siang and son (probably Betty too, to come and think of it).

    Grow up Walter Woon. Can you live a second without blaming UMNO for everything? UMNO is responsible for the lack of opportunities for the non-Malays? I guess this explains why the top 10 non-GLC listed companies are mostly non-Malay owned, or why 9 out of 10 richest people in the country are non-Malays. Kit Siang’s Malaysian Malaysia is realised when the top 1,000 richest people are all non-Malays…baru puas agaknya. If you had your way Walter Woon,
    I guess you would even blame your erectile dysfunction on UMNO!
    🙂

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 6, 2014 at 12:44 am

      I wonder who is getting emotional. When you see two objects and start complaining about the one with a little dirt (after all, nothing in this world is perfect), are you objective? You talk about Lim Kit Siang being a racist. Now, I am asking you why you never said Ketuanan Melayu is racism? Will you like to do that now, to give your post a more balanced look?

      1. Objective Malaysian
        Objective Malaysian
        May 6, 2014 at 1:09 am

        No.

        Actually, I dont need to do anything for you Walter Woon.

        You obviously enjoy hearing your own voice and seeing your own post gets published. Since you are bereft of any intellectual capacity to reason and argue things properly, I think there is really no point engaging you further.

        Enjoy your monologue Walter Woon.

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 1:19 am

        Was it a monologue? So you must a ghost or a wall then. Anyway, to each his way.

    2. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 6, 2014 at 12:57 am

      QUOTE: “I guess this explains why the top 10 non-GLC listed companies are mostly non-Malay owned, or why 9 out of 10 richest people in the country are non-Malays. Kit Siang’s Malaysian Malaysia is realised when the top 1,000 richest people are all non-Malays…baru puas agaknya. ”

      Would you like to stand in front of the mirror now? You should heed your own advice not to put words into LKS’s mouth or my mouth. Or is that how you engage in intellectual discourse?

      Honestly, I don’t give a damn who are the richest men in Malaysia, so long as they do it the honest way. It’s not like if they are Chinese, they are going to share it with me. Seems like you are happy if Malays are rich, whether by the Islamic way or otherwise, for reasons best known to yourself!!!

  23. Zaid
    Zaid
    May 6, 2014 at 2:43 am

    Boy, Cendekiawan, Anonymous dan Walter Pund,

    Sudahlah, masa dah lewat. Tak guna pun kamu semua bertekak di sini. Ikutlah hemah Objective Malaysian dan hentikan ini semua. Seperti yang dia kata, biarlah sesiapa yang nak bermonolog dengan monolog syok sendiri.

    OK…Peace!

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 6, 2014 at 2:46 am

      Bermonolog? Kamu buta atau saya tengah membalas hantu?

      1. Cendekiawan
        Cendekiawan
        May 6, 2014 at 2:59 am

        Nah, itu dia lagi satu contoh kebiadapan Walter Pund yang ketara. Zaid nasihat semua orang dengan cara baik-baik, dia serang jugak … panggil Zaid buta!

        Orang yang kekurangan IQ pun tahu apa maksud Zaid…tinggalkan sesiapa yang nak berdebat dengan monolog sendiri SELEPAS ini…bukan maksudnya Walter Pund bermonolog sendiri selama ini. Benda-benda remeh macam ni pun perlu dihutraikan macam budak-budak.

        Inilah dia dasar sebenar pejuang masyarakat madani seperti Pund. Bontot Anwar lebih suci dari perwatakan dia.

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 3:11 am

        PETIKAN: “Nah, itu dia lagi satu contoh kebiadapan.”

        No comments, I am leaving this website for good since even reply to comments is treated as monolog by no other than Zaid himself. Enjoy your Ketuanan Melayu. Your syurga is here in Malaysia. After that, I am not sure.

      3. Zaid
        Zaid
        May 6, 2014 at 3:31 am

        Walter, you are such a fool! Im a different Zaid la, not THE Zaid Ibrahim.

        Why you so sensitive? No need to exile yourself from the blog. As long as all of you can remain civil, Im sure your contributions will be welcome my friend.

        Peace!

      4. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
        Zaidgeist Web Administrator
        May 6, 2014 at 3:47 am

        Dear Walter,

        Hello, are you still there? Please say yes otherwise I will get in trouble with Dato’ Zaid tomorrow afternoon (fortunately he doesnt get up so early nowadays).

        Come back please. My web team promise we won’t block you or report you for sedition or any of that nonsense.

        You have my word on this. Please reply and acknowledge this as I really need to know we have not lost anymore visitors to this blog.

        Please Sir help us. Dato’ Zaid values freedom of speech more than his life sometimes and he can be most unforgiving on matters like this.

        Please Mr. Woon, I plead to you. My team and I have mouths to feed.

        Just say you forgive us and will grace these pages with your wisdom and intellect Sir.

        Thank you for your kind forgiveness Sir.

    2. Anonymous
      Anonymous
      May 6, 2014 at 2:51 am

      Terima kasih atas nasihat Zaid. Saya setuju.

      Ayuh Cendekiawan, Boy dan lain-lain, kita tinggalkan orang biadap yang tidak mampu berhujah itu dengan dirinya sendiri.

      Orang cuba perbetulkan peradaban dia, dia putar belit keluar topik dengan isu-isu lain yang orang lain tak pernah bangkitkan pun. Daging babi la, Ketuanan Melayula dan 1001 benda yang tidak berkenaan dan tak disentuah sesiapa pun.

      Betul kata Zaid, biarkan orang tu syok sendiri dengan monolognya selepas ini.

      Selamat malam dan salam kepada semua warga Malaysia yang tercinta….

      1. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:54 am

        Biadap? Mengamalkan hudud bersama-sama dengan Ketuanan Melayu? Itu tak biadap? Itu sejajar dengan agama Islam ke? Entahlah apa jenama Islam yang kamu mengamalkan.

        Harap kamu bukan hanti. Kalau tidak, orang akan kata saya bermonolog pulak!!!

      2. Walter Poon
        Walter Poon
        May 6, 2014 at 2:56 am

        PEMBETULAN: “Harap kamu bukan HANTU. Kalau tidak, orang akan kata saya bermonolog pulak!!!”

  24. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    May 6, 2014 at 3:12 am

    Walter Pund and the others,

    The discussion on this thread is turning unpleasant and downright rude.

    Comments on this thread is closed.

    Please be reminded to maintain common courtesy and decorum or else we will be forced to permanently block you and surrender the logs containing your IP addresses to the appropriate authorities. Be warned that all applicable national laws of Malaysia, including the Sedition Act may apply. Zeitgeist may extend the necessary cooperation to the authorities as required by the law to facilitate in the investigations of these heinous offences.

    Thank you.

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 6, 2014 at 3:15 am

      Walter Pund? I said fuck you… as an administrator, you are no better than the others. I am Poon, not Pund, and you are Zaid, not Haid. Block me, by all means, because I am not interested in this website anymore.

  25. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    May 6, 2014 at 3:14 am

    Apologies, I meant to Walter Poon (not Pund).

    Sincerely,
    The Webmaster

    1. Walter Poon
      Walter Poon
      May 6, 2014 at 3:16 am

      Sorry, your apologies came a bit too late. Anyway, I am leaving this website.

      1. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
        Zaidgeist Web Administrator
        May 6, 2014 at 3:36 am

        Dear Mr. Woon,

        My apologies once again. Hope you don’t small heart with my mistake. After all, to err is human after all, to forgive is simply divine.

        Please come back. This blog really needs all your invaluable contributions.

  26. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    May 6, 2014 at 4:00 am

    Dear Walter,

    Hello Sir, are you still there? Please promise us you will come back, or else we will all get in trouble with Dato’ Zaid tomorrow afternoon (thankfully, he doesn’t get up so early nowadays).

    Please Mr. Walter, I plead to you – please dont complain or be angry. We promise you we wont block you, volunteer your IP address to the authorities or report you for sedition. I give you my word on this. Dato’ values freedom of speech as much as his life and can be unforgiving over this sedition, OSA, ISA nonsense. He will not be happy if he knows what happened here. We cannot afford to lose any more visitors and will be held accountable. I have mouths to feed so please Mr. Loon, I beg you to come back and grace our pages with your wisdom and intellect. We value your able contributions and hope to see you again Sir.

    Sincerely,
    Your Webmaster

    1. YB Dato' Zaid Ibrahim
      YB Dato' Zaid Ibrahim
      May 6, 2014 at 4:11 am

      Webmasters,

      Aku bangun awal pagi ni! Apa semua ni? Kau singgung perasaan pembaca Zeitgeist ya? Kita kehilangan seorang lagi ahli setia.

      Nanti aku ajar kau orang semua! Potong gaji bulan ni!

      Nasib baik belum ada hudud, kalau tak aku suruh potong tangan kamu semua. Mencuri pembaca dari Zeitgeist samalah seperti perbuatan mencuri yang lain!

  27. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    May 6, 2014 at 4:00 am

    Oh God

  28. Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    Zaidgeist Web Administrator
    May 6, 2014 at 4:06 am

    Dear all,

    Kindly ignore the last two postings above Walter Loon. Those are private messages and are not meant to be published.

    Apologies,
    Your Web Master

    P.S.: sorry in advance. We really don’t mean (web) Master in the ‘Ketuanan Melayu’ sense of the word. Apologies to all who may be offended, especially of course to Mr. Walter.)

  29. Laremie Tan
    Laremie Tan
    May 10, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    Those who object to hudud must listen to PAS first

  30. Laremie Tan
    Laremie Tan
    May 10, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    All sides must listen to PAS first

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